Metal Anarchy

Misha Mansoor (Periphery) recently discussed the lack of money artists earn from touring. However, his comments have not sat well with Ryan O’Leary (Fit For A King), who has since blasted him online.

Mansoor said the following on the Nick Nocturnal Podcast when asked about 2018 comments in which he claimed Periphery make “no money”:

“I’d say it’s probably more relevant than ever. People always got the wrong message from what I was saying ‘cuz ’cause like I did this interview with Rick Beato, and that was my point was like, ‘Hey you’re going to need side hustles.’ You’re going to need income streams and those take a while… Those take a while to build and to bear fruit, if they’re going to bear any at all. So start early.

Like this is stuff that we did from the beginning, and any band would benefit from knowing this information from the beginning, rather than believing like, ‘Ah man if you just believe it hard enough, like you just have to want it more than the next guy, you’re going to make it. The music will be enough.’

Being just a musician is just not enough for most people to make. If it is, it’s great. But like my advice with that was it’s still the same. Like people always took away from it, ‘Oh, Misha‘s complaining he doesn’t make money with Periphery.’ It’s like, no, I don’t care that I don’t make money with Periphery, because I use it as the nucleus for all my other stuff that does make me money so that I can have a life.

And I did this because I started these things very, very early on. And if I hadn’t done that, I probably would have quit the band by now, because I wouldn’t have been able to afford to continue being in a band. I think nowadays, dude, I don’t know how bands who rely just on the band are going to survive the next few years. And here’s why: Maybe you know this from touring, but the costs of everything have like doubled to tripled. The cost of everything.

And the I mean like the cost of a bus has doubled, right? [The rise of fuel prices] is just recent. This was this was like post-pandemic [that] the cost of buses have doubled and a lot of crew quit. So you know, the people that stayed, there’s less of them, supply and demand, they charge more.

The people — your crew — their cost of living has gone up. So they need more to justify going out on the road. Everything has gone up. So what’s interesting is you’ll see — and we’ve seen this too — our guarantees have gone up. Our guarantees continue to go up, up and up, great. But they don’t get as much mileage as you would think, because the cost of everything is so much higher.

So like then what you have is as a headliner, you know — we’re going to get into some inside baseball here for some of the fans, right? So you understand what’s going on. So basically, generally the way it works is the headliner gets some amount of money that’s agreed upon from the promoter and then they put together a package and they have to pay out of that money, you know, your support and whatever right?

Well the support bands now want/need so much, like a lot more than they’re worth, at least relative to the market. And when I say worth, I mean there’s data points. You could see their numbers on the tours. You could see where they draw, like this isn’t emotional, this is pure data. And our manager is very, very data-driven. So like this is all this is all very factual.

But they want more than they’re worth. But the reason they want it is because their tour is insolvent if they don’t make this amount, because they have to pay their cost too. So I’m not holding it against them at all. I’m just saying like this is just the reality of it.

So now on all ends there’s just not enough money to go around, and basically as anyone who’s in a band knows, you’re the last one to get paid. Your crew gets paid. Your manager, your business manager, your booking agent, they all get paid. You’re going… if your business manager is smart, he’ll do a 40% tax hold back on whatever money that you get after it’s split five, six ways — whatever it is. So like what’s left over for the band is usually little to nothing. and everyone else will get paid — and they should get paid, because they’re working very hard.

There’s very little to go around. So, I don’t really know how bands are going to survive this without something changing. And I don’t really know what that is. I think the the next few years are going to be pretty tough for a lot of bands that don’t have side hustles or ways to, you know, ancillary income, to help justify the the little to no money they’ll make on tour.”

He also added the following about artists finding ways to supplement their income:

“That’s that’s exactly what they should be doing. And that’s what I was trying to say all along. Just like, ‘Hey, your band’s not going to make any money. Do the other stuff.’ And who knows where it may lead. Yeah, maybe at first it’s just lessons. Maybe at first it’s just this. Maybe at first it’s just YouTube. Who knows where that leads? Now you’re opening a door to other possibilities. But you know what? What won’t help is just sitting there and be like, ‘Well, I hope that like the band makes enough to survive.’

Because it’s just like even if it did 5 years ago, it doesn’t anymore. Because you are earning maybe 10 to 20% more and the cost of everything are doubled. And there is no business model that would survive that.

Any business model, if your cost of goods and services goes up 10 to 15%, you’re in a lot of trouble, right? For most businesses. Because the margins are usually not that crazy, right? Imagine that you’re running a business and your cost of goods and services double.

Like that just ruins most businesses. That makes them insolvent, you know? So what what is the answer to that? The answer is like you have to do other stuff whether you like it or not, you know?”

Upon hearing Mansoor’s take, O’Leary decided to call him out via social media:

“Rich guy in a band said you need a side hustle because he doesn’t understand how budgets work. @NikNocturnal talk to someone that’s not a fucking idiot and actually makes a living touring. This rhetoric is unhealthy for young musicians.”

He also had an exchange with a fan:

Fan: “I think the point Misha was trying to make is that inflation has killed the margins on touring niche genres, which is not inaccurate. Budgeting is obviously a must, but when everything costs 30-60% more since 2019, it’s hard to tour playing say 500 cap rooms and survive.”

O’Leary: “Bands are also charging double for shirts and are getting paid a lot more. I would fully disagree with you on the can’t play 500 caps and survive. Doesn’t mean you’re ‘roughing’ it in a van either.”

[via The PRP]